Gwen introduced me to your writing and told me how much she thought of both you and your work. I had planned to fly to NYC yesterday to see her at MSK, but she nixed that plan by dying too quickly. Her sisters held the phone up to her just after she passed so I could say good bye and tell her how much I loved her. Fifty years of friendship doesn't end with lymphoma. One of my last gifts to her was a packet of phone charging cords so she could keep calling me. I'll wait for the phone to ring forever.
Valerie, this is so beautiful. I've mentioned Gwen in two or three spaces now, and every time I hear from people who knew her much better than I did. It does my heart good to know she was so special to so many. Thank you for sharing this and I hope we see each other in person sometime.
Hi Tommy: I love the catchphrase "Tom Sawyering" in this context! I've been working on a lot of writing projects - as well as composition projects - just coming off a sabbatical semester. I teach at Berklee which is not a school that provides faculty with a lot of support for doing academic writing: so when you try to write something based on practical teaching experience, and to get it published in an external forum, you sometimes smack unprepared into the joys and agonies of peer review comments. So I've noticed on every writing project that at a certain phase of things, I can write a list of about 30 people I absolutely want to read over the paper to give me comments and feedback. The reality is you can't really do that - it's a big ask, and the timeframes don't allow it, and the truth is you probably couldn't respond to that avalanche of feedback anyway. I've never really thought about having an "event" (like the fence whitewashing party) that is time-contained, and collaborative, and fun! But it's a brilliant idea that I'll be mulling over, since I'll be in this situation over and over again going forward, I know. Thanks for sharing a fruitful concept - and a catchy title for it as well!
Mark! So good to hear from you. Yeah, I'd say 30 people would be way too many for me as well ... with my first book, I think I had six people read it all the way through. More than that and the advice can get overwhelming. Do you collaborate with other songwriters, or get feedback from peers once you've written a song?
Thank you for the list and your link on AI and ChatGPT, a site I tried to use without success. Too busy and still waiting to get my email, ha! The poet artist Iain S Thomas embraced AI in his collection with researcher Jasmine Wang, What makes us human? Am pleased to see writers embrace technology. Recall one big tech mogul predicted the end of libraries decades ago; yet libraries are thriving. ;-)
I think it can be a both/and sort of thing--I know there are bots that write things like summaries of high-school football games, which is just a matter of plugging in the stats. But to get a sense of what it's like to be there, to get the soul of it ... humans are irreplaceable.
Loved this issue of the Writing Shed....thank you...Google Tom Jones and CSNY singing Long Time Gone from the old this is Tom Jones TV...I saw this video after David Crosby died...Just never realized he sang such a variety of tunes.
I would love to tell you that I remember every detail of the Little League no-hitter I pitched when I was 12. But, I’d be lying if I said I remembered anything more than my mom asking my coach if he realized that I hadn’t given up a hit during the game (he hadn’t).
I think feedback on a song is a whole other kettle of fish, and is different for solo vs. cowriting as well.
Back to "writing writing" though - In reading the acknowledgements sections of a lot of books, I'm always struck by the extent of the "village" it takes to raise a book... It seems there is a convention of having a circle of first or alpha readers. Orson Scott Card wrote a great piece about having a "Wise Reader" who helps him catch many of the errors an editor would otherwise have to catch much later in the process. (I've applied that to getting feedback on songwriting from a "Wise Listener".)
I think in retrospect my desire to reach out to 30 folks reflected some of my insecurities - and also my confusing the stages: the feedback you want to help FINISH the piece, and the feedback you want after letting the piece out into the world. Good questions to mull! - Mark
Tommy, this was one of your best substacks... teamwork of writing a book was just so sweet... Jeff Pearlmans trusting your memory was so good, I signed up for his substack.... the article on Ort was just terrific... I was in Athens for the first time this fall and saw UGA beat Tennessee along with 92,000 of my closest friends.... we tailgated, people were beyond friendly, bought a red Georgia hat and wore it for weeks... keep up the good work, look forward to your new book... best of luck!
Gwen introduced me to your writing and told me how much she thought of both you and your work. I had planned to fly to NYC yesterday to see her at MSK, but she nixed that plan by dying too quickly. Her sisters held the phone up to her just after she passed so I could say good bye and tell her how much I loved her. Fifty years of friendship doesn't end with lymphoma. One of my last gifts to her was a packet of phone charging cords so she could keep calling me. I'll wait for the phone to ring forever.
Valerie, this is so beautiful. I've mentioned Gwen in two or three spaces now, and every time I hear from people who knew her much better than I did. It does my heart good to know she was so special to so many. Thank you for sharing this and I hope we see each other in person sometime.
Come to Paris and I’ll show you how to eat right and enjoy the real football.
can't wait for the Joe book!
You're gonna love it.
Hi Tommy: I love the catchphrase "Tom Sawyering" in this context! I've been working on a lot of writing projects - as well as composition projects - just coming off a sabbatical semester. I teach at Berklee which is not a school that provides faculty with a lot of support for doing academic writing: so when you try to write something based on practical teaching experience, and to get it published in an external forum, you sometimes smack unprepared into the joys and agonies of peer review comments. So I've noticed on every writing project that at a certain phase of things, I can write a list of about 30 people I absolutely want to read over the paper to give me comments and feedback. The reality is you can't really do that - it's a big ask, and the timeframes don't allow it, and the truth is you probably couldn't respond to that avalanche of feedback anyway. I've never really thought about having an "event" (like the fence whitewashing party) that is time-contained, and collaborative, and fun! But it's a brilliant idea that I'll be mulling over, since I'll be in this situation over and over again going forward, I know. Thanks for sharing a fruitful concept - and a catchy title for it as well!
Mark Simos
Mark! So good to hear from you. Yeah, I'd say 30 people would be way too many for me as well ... with my first book, I think I had six people read it all the way through. More than that and the advice can get overwhelming. Do you collaborate with other songwriters, or get feedback from peers once you've written a song?
Thank you for the list and your link on AI and ChatGPT, a site I tried to use without success. Too busy and still waiting to get my email, ha! The poet artist Iain S Thomas embraced AI in his collection with researcher Jasmine Wang, What makes us human? Am pleased to see writers embrace technology. Recall one big tech mogul predicted the end of libraries decades ago; yet libraries are thriving. ;-)
I think it can be a both/and sort of thing--I know there are bots that write things like summaries of high-school football games, which is just a matter of plugging in the stats. But to get a sense of what it's like to be there, to get the soul of it ... humans are irreplaceable.
Loved this issue of the Writing Shed....thank you...Google Tom Jones and CSNY singing Long Time Gone from the old this is Tom Jones TV...I saw this video after David Crosby died...Just never realized he sang such a variety of tunes.
I'll check it out!
Tom Jones at 82! Just Wow on that number.
I would love to tell you that I remember every detail of the Little League no-hitter I pitched when I was 12. But, I’d be lying if I said I remembered anything more than my mom asking my coach if he realized that I hadn’t given up a hit during the game (he hadn’t).
And I hate that I never met Ort. Or Gwen.
I think feedback on a song is a whole other kettle of fish, and is different for solo vs. cowriting as well.
Back to "writing writing" though - In reading the acknowledgements sections of a lot of books, I'm always struck by the extent of the "village" it takes to raise a book... It seems there is a convention of having a circle of first or alpha readers. Orson Scott Card wrote a great piece about having a "Wise Reader" who helps him catch many of the errors an editor would otherwise have to catch much later in the process. (I've applied that to getting feedback on songwriting from a "Wise Listener".)
I think in retrospect my desire to reach out to 30 folks reflected some of my insecurities - and also my confusing the stages: the feedback you want to help FINISH the piece, and the feedback you want after letting the piece out into the world. Good questions to mull! - Mark
Tommy, this was one of your best substacks... teamwork of writing a book was just so sweet... Jeff Pearlmans trusting your memory was so good, I signed up for his substack.... the article on Ort was just terrific... I was in Athens for the first time this fall and saw UGA beat Tennessee along with 92,000 of my closest friends.... we tailgated, people were beyond friendly, bought a red Georgia hat and wore it for weeks... keep up the good work, look forward to your new book... best of luck!